Outline of Bishop's 1st conversation with the congregation

Bishop discussion with the congregation on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2011

23 people in attendance

Bishop opened the meeting with a reading from  Matthew 16:24-26  ²⁴ Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. ²⁵ For whoever wants to save their life^[a] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. ²⁶ What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

Bishop then told us that God is a God of life and hope.

-          We follow God by following life and hope

-          If we follow life and hope we can trust we are following God

-          There is life no matter what

-          Life and hope begins and ends with our physical death – it’s what keeps us going on both side (life and death)

-          If we go through life without a resurrection life then the object of life is simply to live, but to live life with a resurrection life the object is then life.

Bishop connected this to life in a church

-          Life in terms of our lives is also true to congregational live, he said

o   We might need to let go if our congregation is simply staying open to stay alive and the hope to live in the resurrection hope is no longer there.

§  We have this conversation not in despair, but in life and hope of the future.

At this point the Bishop asked that we break into groups and talk about what it means for Our Congregation to be a congregation of Life and Hope

-          When we came back together Bishop asked us to talk about ways that we see hope and life in the congregation now and ways that we can possibly see hope and life if the congregation closes.

o   Throughout the evening items were place on the list. Here are the results:

§  Life/Hope in the congregation now:

·         Recovery

·         More parishioners, stop current parishioners from leaving

§  Life/Hope if congregation closes:

·         Assets used as seeds in the garden of what is next

·         Money from assets and sale of building put in Synod Mission Fund to start new congregations

·         People here can find a new passion for ministry in joining new congregations that are life giving

o   During the conversation the difference between hope and wish was stressed.

§  Hope is based on reality

§  Wish is based on fantasy

The question was raised by the Bishop in the above conversation about how do we get people to the church?

-          We responded:

o   They make the first move

-          The Bishop responded:

o   The Church of the 1950s is no more, it’s not the way people come to church anymore

o   And he stressed that programs to attract people do not work either, especially in the city.

The Bishop then gave a way congregations can get people to church:

-          Congregations need to figure out what people are asking and what they are looking for

o   This sometimes makes us a service provider with programs like ESL or Food Pantry

o   We need to have Jesus involved

o   People want to be listened to and this takes time and one-on-one relationship

o   And, we can’t do it the way we’ve always do it before

On the theme that we can’t always do it the way we’ve always do it before the Bishop moved into talking about church budgets stressing that they way we’ve done it is expensive:

-          To have a pastor, staff, music, building the average minimum budget is $150,000

-          You need around 75 people a Sunday to break even – this means 125 household members.

-          Bishop stressed that we can cut costs and get budgets down to $75,000

o   Cut building matters, but our buildings communicate life and hope – does our building do that now?

o   We can call a pastor to come just on Sundays, but where’s the vision and mission then

o   We can live off the endowment, that that just prolongs the inevitable unless major changes come in the years a congregation lives off the money

-          It was stressed that church is not a social club

o   The minute our church becomes a social club it is not a mission

Bishop talked about ways congregations attract new members, how the synod helps congregations figure this out, and how leadership is trained in this:

-          Koinonia Team training for leadership and renewal

o   Leadership needs people asking: what is God calling me to do? And, How can I help?

-          Turn Around Synod

o   This tool is there to help, but the synod cannot give you the passion and time

§  The TAG survey states that we don’t have either

o   In the end, we have to want something bad enough to die for it

§  What are you willing to let die in order to live life?

§  Bishop used the story of the crippled man by the well to ask us, do you want to be well?

o   Saving what you already know, does this represent living or staying alive?

§  Answer: staying alive

·         What are we willing to change, let go of, do differently?

-          He talked about training members in inviting people and said at his former congregation, St. Mark, he asked new members 2 questions:

o   Why did you come: They were invited

o   Why did you stay: there was a connection to their lives

Bishop recognized that we as people are not good at dying and used John 12 to express this:

” Now among those who went up to worship at the festival were some Greeks. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and said to him, ‘Sir, we wish to see Jesus.’ Philip went and told Andrew; then Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus. Jesus answered them, ‘The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Very truly, I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just a single grain; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Those who love their life lose it, and those who hate their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. Whoever serves me must follow me, and where I am, there will my servant be also. Whoever serves me, the Father will honor.”

-          Bishop said that the seed must die in the ground to bring about life.

So, what do we do now?

-          Make a list of all things we treasure about the church then cross off everything we would be willing to let go of

-          Recognize what power it takes to make a difference:

o   Organized people and organized money = power = making a difference, how do we get this?

o   Admit to ourselves that now our only mission is to each other and ask ourselves where is Christ and the Gospel? How do we center ourselves on Christ and the Gospel once again?

o   Then we know that we have to walk out in faith and prayer:

§  “There has been no important decision I’ve made in my life that hasn’t been ambiguous or without prayer”

Redevelopment?

-          We would probably not be approved and the synod is not recommending us to the ELCA for assessment

o   80% of redevelopments fail

o   The congregation has to really want it and not just see it as a last ditch effort to stay alive, there has to be a longing for life

o   Pastor burnout in redevelopment settings is high and in order to avoid that the synod wants to know that congregations seeing redevelopment are supportive of the developing pastor and all new ideas

o   Redevelopment is hard on congregations because everything changes, power is stripped away, all power is given to the developer pastor and the pastor will make decisions that seem crazy and will upset people

§  If people don’t really want redevelopment this is a hindrance to the process

o   The new worshiping community will not look like us and we would need to be willing to accept that